Wednesday, May 30, 2007

In the Trenches with the Christians

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Back at the DNC Anti-Semitism Post, Jason of Washington Interns Gone Bad asked: "So, what do you think about the Evangelical Rights support of Israel as a pawn in their apocalypse fantasy?" Here is my response:

Since Israel's inception, this safe haven for the Jews has been under attack by the Arab neighbors. After the Six Day War, the Arab States started to realize Israel is not going to go away but remain as a state in their midst. When I was bar Mitzvahed at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, the questions to all the Arab States regarding the Palestinian question was: "Where were the Palestinians when they were in Jordan?"

Even though these State entities could not defeat Israel, these same States have kept an Economic Boycott of Israel. Allies for the small Jewish State have always been few and far between. The United Nations, supposedly a bastion of Peaceful Nations declared in the 1970's "Zionism is racism" Excepting the United States, which States stands with Israel?

The Christian Zionists (of which Aurora is one), support Israel's survival unconditionally. Modern Leftists, Liberals and Democrats [LLD] do not see a beleaguered Jewish state surrounded by people who wish to kill her civilians, but as a "terrorist" entity that is filled with war criminals. A friend is someone who wishes you can do better, but will support you. The LLD's do not even make the case for protecting Israel's civilians.

Remember, The quisling Heathlander is a writer on the Daily Kos, which in turn supports the Democrats, who might turn away from Israel during the next attack. The Christian Zionists believe in the words of the Book of Revelations, but it's arrival is no more clear then the date of "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" or whatever it is being called today (And that is a post for another day).

Every generation since the Fall of Rome has seen the Apocalypse coming. Who knows? It might actually happen. Until that day arrives, I like having the Christian Zionists talking about Israel in a positive light. What other nation is doing that? When the LLD's support the right of Israel's existence, then I will listen to their criticisms of the Jewish State. The Christian Zionists want Israel to live and thrive. What do the LLD's represent but criticism and wishful thinking (on the Palestinian side)?


  1. Wow, I am so incredibly disappointed I barely even want to respond. I wasn't looking for the usual politicizing of the issue. I know you think that all the left just want to pick up where Hitler left off. I know you support the right, including the wingnuttiest of their base. What I really wanted to know are your feelings, as a person and not part of a political machine, that some of your strongest allies are only in it because their crazy mythology says that the Jews need to have control of the holy land before their god can come down and send you all to hell. I'll pick this up on my blog later on.

  2. Jason,

    The issue was Polticized before either of us got to the scene. I'm sorry you're disappointed, but as you said on your Blog, "Friends and family are affected by those suicide bombers,"

    I thought I gave my feelings here. Allies for Israel are too infrequent to question their "Why's," I listen to the protest marches the Left brings up, and I have yet to hear someone who speaks and is defending Israel's right to exist. Is that so hard the Left to do?

  3. I believe that the World Bank and IMF are not particularly good organizations and hurt third world countries. Osama bin Laden believes the same thing. While just about every politician and corporate type in the world feels differently, I am not willing to accept bin Laden as an ally in this just because I don't have many other allies.

    I stopped going to protests in part because they have become a platform for every possible person to speak on every possible issue, many of which have nothing to do with the cause of the protest. I think that defending a country's right to exist is pretty much an unspoken thing. I disagree with many things that many countries do, but I don't want any of them not to exist. But if it would change your mind, let me right now for the record exclaim my support for the existence of Israel. There is no possible way that I am the only person on the left who feels this way. But people like me don't get invited to speak at protests. Don't take the wingnuts so seriously. They don't represent the mainstream left. They're just louder.

  4. Jason,

    Thank you for that. If You were writing at the Daily Kos instead of The Heathlander, I would believe that you are not the only one. The daily Kos is a very large megaphone for the Democratic party, the Heathlander is able to speak from that megaphone.

    Check out this link from Wikipedia:

    Many posters at the daily Kos and writers at the Nation are supportive of those Red mapped spaces. The Nation, unfortunatly, is not a 'zine. I want your view to be a majority of the Democratic Party thoughts on Israel, but it is not coming through.

  5. believe that a two state solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict is the best soluton provided states are economically, politically, and socially viable.

    It was proposed at one time that the Palestinian territories of the West Bank be incorporated into the preexisting nation state of Jordan however, this idea is ludicrious especially in light of the strained relationship that exists between Jordan and the Palestinian Authority formerly known as the PLO.

    In 1970-1971 the PLO led by Arafat attempted to engender within Jordan a full scale civil war by attempting a coup d'etat against King Hussein I and later assassinating Prime Minister al-Tal in November of 1971.

    Due to this strained relationship and the social political and economic non-feasibility of incorporating the territories King Hussein divested Jordan of direct responsibility for the Palestinian territories and its people beginning on January 1, 1989.

    The withdrawl of Jordan as a direct and active participant from the negotiations and talks related to Israeli -Palestinian Conflict has resulted in the PLO and its succcesssor turning more and more to Syria and Egypt.

    Hussein I like his grandfather Abdullah I before him proved to be generally an adept politician and his aptitude insured the survival of one most dependable allies in the Middle East because, although the ties between the House of Saud and the U.S. are strong they tend to fluctuate more wildly than relationship between the U.S. and the Bani-Hashem do.

    Peace will come when humankind as a whole realize two things, that King Hussein realized many years ago.

    1. What does a man seek in this world? A position, or a throne? Man seeks peace of mind the fear of Almighty God. As long as one knows there is a judgement day, he tries to keep his conscience clear and do what he can.

    2. When the time comes, no hour could be postponed or brought forward. The true believer is he who has faith in the one God who has no partners, he who respects rights and freedoms of others, he who has lived his life in submission to God's will.

    Peace will come when both sides recognize the rights and freedoms of the other and acknowledge without condition and reservation the inherent right of each other to exist as a nation-state

    Then, and only then will the peace process truly begin.

    As Abba Eban said: History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.

  6. I'm pretty sure anyone can blog at Kos, but one thing I've learned from years of activism both online and in the real world is that I quickly get sick of the group dynamics in activist circles. Groups can be so unbearably dogmatic. Plus, I didn't register my name as a domain to go and blog on somebody else's site. They can link to me if they like what I have to say.

  7. It is true that Christian Zionists believe in the Book of Revelation, I have heard many who say that the final battle between light and darkness will take place at Megiddo although what they fail to realize is that several battles have already taken place there one in 1457 B.C.E., one in 609 B.C.E., and one in 1918 C.E.
    I hope the Christian Zionists are wrong in their interpretation of the Book of Revelation because, above all else I desire peace.
    I am by nature and my own my actions a Recovering Roman Catholic who has seen his fill of death, resulting from the wanton, reckless destruction wrought by fools on both sides of this issue.

    I will close by saying that Sherman was correct when he said the following It is good that war is so terrible a thing, else mankind would come to love it.

  8. Jason,

    Have the folks at the Kos linked to you yet? You bring up some good points for your side. However, the Heathlander is lauded and praised from the Left End of the Blogosphere. He is loud and no one is saying "Shannanigans" to his Anti-Isreali posts.


    The Christian Zionists might believe in the Apocalypse, but they have belive in the End sine the Fall of Rome. As far as the palestinians are concerned, neither the PLO, Fatah, or Hamas do any work on building State Institutions like Government structures or Central banking. The Arabs made the Isreali's the fall guys for the Palestinians failure to create a state.

  9. I do not disagree however, I would argue that the Palestinians themselves should take responsibility for their failures.

    However thus far only Jordan has acknowledged the responsibility borne by the Palestinians in faaiiling to create a viable nation state as acknowleged in 1988 in Amman, in the 1994 peace treaty with Israel signed in Washington D.C., and afgain in 1998 at the Wye River Summit.
    Untill the other arab nations follow the Jordanian formula the progress of the peace process will stagnate

  10. Anonymous5:52 AM PDT

    JSF said: The Christian Zionists (of which Aurora is one), support Israel's survival unconditionally.
    Thanks, JSF. I'll take that as a high compliment. If Israel doesn't have the right to exist on her historical sliver of land, none of us have that right. If I were threatened by annihilation, I'd be bloody well fighting to the death too!

  11. Aurora, What do you believe will happen to Jews when they die? Where do they go? Just wondering.

  12. What, a Christian who doesn't believe in the afterlife? No, methinks you're dodging the question. That's what I'm talking about. In your belief, what does the afterlife have in store for those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior? Being pro-Palestinian is not the same as anti-Jew. Hell, being anti-Israel is not the same as being anti-Jew. I am pro-peace which means that I think both sides need to knock off the bullshit. Does that make me anti-Jew as well? To quote the great Obi Wan Kenobi, "only a Sith deals in absolutes."

  13. PS to Aurora: the relevance of my question is that if you don't support them in the afterlife, your support for them on earth is at best superficial and at worst kind of evil. So let me be more direct here. As a Christian Zionist, do you believe that Jews who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior will be going to Heaven or Hell?


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